The Media Center Sandbox

Any news?

Can someone from microsoft please comment on this one...

andersswe:

Any news?

Can someone from microsoft please comment on this one...

They  :
1/ Are busy on Windows 7
2/ Are preparing a patch but this is a surprise
3/ Realized that they made a mistake on the new architecture but don't know how to fix it

Which one is it ?

Why don't they just answer the darn question.  Were the features that break media location automation (comercial skippers, etc) removed on purpose, and will NOT be fixed (not broken if removed on purpose!)?

SIMPLE - JUST ANSWER THE QUESTION.  BUG OR BY DESIGN?

We did not intend to break these applications.

kmp14:

Why don't they just answer the darn question.  Were the features that break media location automation (comercial skippers, etc) removed on purpose, and will NOT be fixed (not broken if removed on purpose!)?

SIMPLE - JUST ANSWER THE QUESTION.  BUG OR BY DESIGN?

<flame>

The thing I don't understand is where you get the idea that Microsoft is beholden to you in any way, and that by being rude and SHOUTING that you are going to get your way.  Didn't your parents teach you anything about good manners?

</flame>

@AndyC: Sure you can flame away at kmp14 but the bottom line is the question did need answering! Was he rude? perhaps but I look at it as a frustrated developer looking for answers. So while the manner in which he asked the question maybe wrong, it is still a valid question! To be frank I'm glad he asked it because I have more knowledge...

 

Would you answer it if it was put that way to you?   I know I wouldn't - I'd just leave it hanging.

As a commercial developer for Media Center, I too am frustrated that the TV Pack is broken, and I'd like to know when it's going to be fixed too.  I just don't believe that the way to approach it is to p*** off the people who can help.  All that seems to happen here and on TGB re TV Pack is people making snidey comments about the performance/quality of the eHome team, and they are surprised (and outraged) when no-one answers them.

Cheers,
Andrew

I hear what you're saying, but it really makes no sense to me.

We all know at least some of the bugs we are now battling against were well known before Fiji went gold. Perhaps the developers trying to further the platform [Media Center] - and indeed their own personal income - would not be frustrated enough to post snide remarks if the eHome team had listened to them in the first place?

I know that I personally reported ReturnToApplication and MediaExperience being faulty sometime back in, I believe, late May or early June - and if I (as a single developer "team" could find them I reckon a lot more people have logged the same bugs). So far I have not had a single reply to my reports over at MS Connect nor have I had a single reply to the countless emails I have sent directly to "key" personnel at Microsoft/eHome (and yes, Charlie is on that list) and finally - there has been no official word (until yesterday) about whether these features being broken are indeed bugs or by design.

I've still never received a fullblown build of Fiji nor have I had a reply as to why the people on the "OEM / Partners beta" was left out of the loop on this, when everyone in the "TV-Pack" beta have apparently been able to download (and leak) the RTM version as well as much more detailed build-notes/changelogs. Yes, I know you (Andy) offered for me to email you directly to help out with this, but unless you have been hired by Microsoft as part of the eHome team, whilst I appreciate the gesture, it's really not your job.

Is it any wonder people are getting antsy? Had there been some sort of official statement straight away (or atleast much, much sooner than now) about this I personally think all/many of the "snidey comments" being posted would never have seen the light of day.

That's my $0.04, thanks.

emigrating:

I hear what you're saying, but it really makes no sense to me.

We all know at least some of the bugs we are now battling against were well known before Fiji went gold. Perhaps the developers trying to further the platform [Media Center] - and indeed their own personal income - would not be frustrated enough to post snide remarks if the eHome team had listened to them in the first place?

I know that I personally reported ReturnToApplication and MediaExperience being faulty sometime back in, I believe, late May or early June - and if I (as a single developer "team" could find them I reckon a lot more people have logged the same bugs). So far I have not had a single reply to my reports over at MS Connect nor have I had a single reply to the countless emails I have sent directly to "key" personnel at Microsoft/eHome (and yes, Charlie is on that list) and finally - there has been no official word (until yesterday) about whether these features being broken are indeed bugs or by design.

I've still never received a fullblown build of Fiji nor have I had a reply as to why the people on the "OEM / Partners beta" was left out of the loop on this, when everyone in the "TV-Pack" beta have apparently been able to download (and leak) the RTM version as well as much more detailed build-notes/changelogs. Yes, I know you (Andy) offered for me to email you directly to help out with this, but unless you have been hired by Microsoft as part of the eHome team, whilst I appreciate the gesture, it's really not your job.

Is it any wonder people are getting antsy? Had there been some sort of official statement straight away (or atleast much, much sooner than now) about this I personally think all/many of the "snidey comments" being posted would never have seen the light of day.

That's my $0.04, thanks.

 

You hit the nail on the head - it's all about communication and managing expectations. If the ehome team released the TVPack and said something like "Here's the TV Pack it has this this and this, but media experience is not working and will be fixed asap" we would not be having this discussion. We wouldn't be posting snide comments and we wouldn't be focusing our energy in a negative situation.

The ehome team has to speak up more not less! Look at the ASP.NET MVC team they are amazing in their communication level with the developer community. Every preview (Not a Release, Not even Beta!!) has tons of information about whats new, what got removed and what is broken, etc.. Scott Guthrie, Phil Haack, those guys are awesome other than Charlie O (who only recently started blogging again) who does the media center community turn to?

Charlie, to soultaker’s point it seems the only way you are willing to respond to TV Pack questions is if we yell. Based on emigrating’s comments earlier in this thread it appears you have probably been through the wringer enough during the beta cycle. Being developers I think we can all appreciate how priorities and time restrictions can have an impact. I can’t speak for everyone here but simply responding to questions would go a long way with me. I understand if you aren’t always able to provide a solution. Simply saying “Hey, I was able to recreate this.” Or “This is a known issue we were not able to address during the TV Pack timeline.” Would be much appreciated. Personally I am looking for workarounds and resolutions, not reasons to gripe.

To refocus this thread, could you please help the community address these issues? Or at the least give us some explanation for why you won't comment on the problems we are having with TV Pack?

emigrating:

I hear what you're saying, but it really makes no sense to me.

...

Is it any wonder people are getting antsy? Had there been some sort of official statement straight away (or atleast much, much sooner than now) about this I personally think all/many of the "snidey comments" being posted would never have seen the light of day.

That's my $0.04, thanks.

What we need to do here is to separate the issue with the behaviours.  Regardless of the issue, the behaviours are (in my mind anyway) unacceptable.   It's playground behaviour to shout to get attention, and to say things like these:

"To say there is not any ulterior motives or political maneuvering in the background would suggest that the eHome team is either very inadequate at their jobs [...]"

"What I find surprising is that the eHome team is supposed to be a team talented developers paid to  work on a particular product (Media Center) and improve the product [...]"

 

Most people that post here and on TGB are either people who work in companies or are still at school - what would happen to these people if they were saying these things in emails about their bosses, co-workers, teachers, or school administration?   Why is it okay to treat the eHome team in this way?

I'm really glad that the responses to my comments have been much more reasoned and done in a completely adult fashion - we need to keep the forum on that level, and deal with the people who resort to playground behaviours in order to get what they want.

Cheers,
Andrew

I can certainly empathize with the issues you folks are having. I've been quietly and patiently working on your behalf to get these issues resolved. No amount of ranting will help that move along quicker (and in fact, the more time I spend here responding to those takes away from time spent on the platform).

I'll have more to say once PDC gets underway -- for now, know that we are aware of the issues as reported on this thread -- if you don't have a new issue to report, do us all a favor and don't just pile on -- that behavior may work over on thegreenbutton.com but we don't take kindly to unprofessional attitudes around here.

Keep on topic...and let me know if you have issues.

Re,

"Keep on topic...and let me know if you have issues."

I would be more than happy to list any issues I have, but I don't really want to download your software illegally in order to do so.

Any news on this one Charlie?